I am sure we all waiting for the new Rykba engine to make its comeback real soon. Houdini, be afraid, be very afraid...
Old enough that it remains a fable for me
OK, the R2.3->R3-Jump was astonishing. The R3->R4-Step was much smaller. I'm curious what Vas can create with R5 too. Even if he hadn't created all he sold, he surely gave us the prove that he was able to produce great progresses.
But perhaps future belongs to the Critter- and Komodo-people,
or somebody who takes Stockfish (naming it 'Stockfish 3', or calling it 'MyChessEngine', hiding the code and declaring "No, I have have coded it all by myself!!" )
Which is more disheartening for the opposition; (a) increase the gap now and let others find ways to close the gap delaying their next release (b) allow other to close the gap and as soon as they do launch a new H2.1 or H3 placing another gap between H and others. I suspect you will find it is (b). This is not to say Mr Houdart has discovered strength gains that he is holding back but I for one would not discount this as a possibility. I liken this strategy as a good demoralising tactic used very often in the realms of sport or other competitive situations. The other advantage of (b) of course is it is far more commercially rewarding; by launching another version with a claimed ELO gain will reap more income; especially nice where most of the gains came from discoveries made in earlier developments! Something that you will see play out in Formula 1 very often.
So vas, is really the least one who can complain about that. Anyway nobody every saw his source code, even he needs to make rybka open source if he uses anything from fruit or other engines under gpl license.
I can just give you a good statement that seems to be true:
"the stealer is afraid of being stolen by others".
A lot of people took advantage from the source of fruit and crafty.
You will notice that after fruit was made open source suddently a lot of engines improved with a lot of hundreds of elos. One of them was rybka. Many took advantage of fruit, but very less people gave something back. Most of them gave even not a "thank you" to the creator of fruit, because they want to hide the major impact of the fruit source code, so that they appear more likey genius, like they invented everything by themselfs.
It seems I can cite einstein here:
"being creative, means, knowing how to hide your source very good".
The real heroes of computer chess are the autors of fruit and crafty. Their source-code contributed a lot to the current state of computer chess.
We all are learning from others (for example from books), and if we accept to take/use the knowledge of somebody else (e.g. the autor o the book), then in the case that we make some progress, we should publish it.
In a better world anyone that takes something, would know that one day he will also have to give something back, and not just taking from everybody and never giving something back. Just because being in love with $$.
If you have at least a bar mininum of morality you acknowledge your sources, and dont try to minimalize their influence like vas did. (i remember he was saying that the fruti code brought him just little, i think he said something around 5-20 elo).
And related to houdini.
You remember the time when your posts have been delated (and you have been told that you will be banned from here) just because of writing "h*****i" here. Now vas is making advertising houdini.
You notice that power of $$ ?
The creator of houdini at the beginnings of houdini wrote on his site, that houdini is strongly based on ippolite (open source) ... and also influenced by fruit....
Well, where is the source then? He is just making money with houdini, and vilating the gpl license.
> Anyway nobody every saw his source code
Nobody ever saw the Fruit source code Vas was supposedly accused of having copied!
> The creator of houdini at the beginnings of houdini wrote on his site, that houdini is strongly based on ippolite (open source) ... and also influenced by fruit....
> Well, where is the source then? He is just making money with houdini, and vilating the gpl license.
Get your facts right.
1) The important influence of Ippolit and Stockfish is still acknowledged on the Houdini web site, check it out, it's been there for 18 months.
2) Houdini has got nothing to do with Fruit. Zero, zilch, nada.
3) Houdini does not contain any third-party code other than the EGTB access code, and does not violate any software license - GPL or other.
When they have been accused of using rykba-code, they said, that in fact, there are using idea/code from fruit.
yes, at least robert gives a small acknowledge to ippolit but he says "ideas" minimizing the importance, while I guess nobody is thinking that he didnt take any code from there. (Like "magic-constants"). He writes that he took ideas from ippolit, but i think at the beginning of houdini he wrote that it was very much based on ippolit and by then he mentionated also fruit.
I think (but i'm not sure) initially he even said, that he holds the source for a while closed, till he cleans it up, and that he would later deliver the source code.
> perhaps you dont know that ippolit is based on fruit?
I don't know and don't accept that.
Please demonstrate that Ippolit is based on Fruit. This should be very easy, Ippolit and Fruit sources are freely available.
> He writes that he took ideas from ippolit, but i think at the beginning of houdini he wrote that it was very much based on ippolit and by then he mentionated also fruit.
Please show a reference to this, AFAIK the Houdini author has never written anything about Fruit.
So many claims that are not supported by any evidence: "I think (but I'm not sure)...", "...I guess that...", "...they said that...", "...I think he wrote..."
Internet forums at their best.
> So many claims that are not supported by any evidence: "I think (but I'm not sure)...", "...I guess that...", "...they said that...", "...I think he wrote..."
I am 100% sure, without a single shred of doubt, that Houdini is based on Ippolit/Robbolito. Here's some evidence.
> AFAIK the Houdini author has never written anything about Fruit
You're funny when you use the royal 'we' and/or talk about yourself in the 3rd person, Robert.
> I am 100% sure, without a single shred of doubt, that Houdini is based on Ippolit/Robbolito. Here's some evidence.
They are not talking about Ippolit/RobboLito. They are talking about Fruit. BTW, see what Robert said on his website about Houdini. All it's very clear:
''Without many ideas and techniques from the open source chess engines Ippolit and Stockfish, Houdini would not nearly be as strong as it is now''.
Robert is a genius. He improve the Ippolit code using his own ideas more than everybody until date. He added many Elo points to the spectacular Houdini and have deserved the first place with elegance. I hope he will continue improving the great code of Houdini.
His work on Houdini is simply spectacular.
Edit: for the record, I've never used a single second of H1.5 or H2, out of pure despise.
> Edit: for the record, I've never used a single second of H1.5 or H2, out of pure despise.
Lies! You say untruthful hurtful things. It's common sense that you used and have H1.5 at least.
If H1.0 is based off Ippolit then what does that have to do with H2.0? H2.0 could be free of all ippolit code as why it's for sale.
If you want to use the program, feel free. But it IS a derivative of ip/robo/etc...
Is it not possible, that gets a "cash" for advertising houdini? Or do you think vas does it for free? You still didnt realize that for vas the $$ matters?
How do you think Vas came suddently to the conclusion that houdini does not contain any single code of rybka, when he fighted a lot against houdini saying that it is an improved clone of rybka. Now suddently you think that he things that houdini doesnt have any single line of code (or parameter) of rybka?
How it is possible that you have such a "blind logic"? If you would be winning something (like money) for distributing such ideas, i would understand your behaviour, but otherwise I have no explanation. Even a normal child, would not come to such a conclusion, that suddently vas is convinced that houdini is pure of any rybka/ippolite code.
To understand your behaviour i would have two more quesitons:
1) Do you get money related to rybka/houdini? Do you have any kind of material benefits?
2) Did you ever wrote your own chess engine, doing everything from scratch?
I ask that because, i think it will help me to better estimate/evaluate your statements.
I'm for giving the guy a clean slate and letting live and let live. Move on. If Ippolit can find its way into the light of day-more power to them. There is nothing mystical here.
 As long as Houdini has been found acceptable to be incorporated into Aquarium GUI and hosted here on the Rybka forum, Robert Houdart will have my full support. That is the way it stands.
You need just 2 words, and i can already evaluate better your statements.
Per Robert Houdart Houdini 2. has no Rybka code in its program. Convekta is good with that -Rybka forum, that is hosting Houdini Aquarium is good with that- Vas is willing to play against Houdini.
The only nay Sayers to this are those tied in with the Ippolit faction. Which, by the way, has questionable beginnings themselves ( understatement ). The ICGA with Bob Hyatt and his little group of vigilantes.
All other reactions are based on the initial first emergence of Houdini as a clone, which they never got over it. But guess what! Some how it transcended its own beginnings , by virtue of its topping the charts and remaining their to this day. The rating systems had to acknowledge the supremacy of Houdini- now, the commercial markets are seeing it.
It is sour grapes to a whole lot of folks-no doubt.
No wonder Ippolit, Hyatt and guys like you hate Houdini! eh!
Now, Ippolit will have to go through the whole process all over again!
Logical. Very logical.
And revealing, too...
instead of writing "two words" (yes/no) you write an roman, and you manage to answer just to one quesiton :P.
so, there is still the question left: Did you write your own chess engine from scratch? (and how much c/c++ exprience do you have?)
Did you ever write your own chess-engine from scratch? (And how much c/c++/assembler experience do you have? That question is optional)
It's easy to answer: you need to answer just with yes or no.
You dont need to write an roman, one single word is enough: yes or no?
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